Learning from other dance styles
I read an article on addicted2salsa.com today and found that it meshed nicely with some of my own ideas on learning to dance.
http://addicted2salsa.com/2007/08/03/thinking-outside-the-box-step/#more-366
I started out knowing nothing but swing dancing; it wasnt until recently, about 3 or 4 months ago, that I started getting into other styles of dance. I was invited to a social at a ballroom studio, where I now take Ballroom lessons. I learned the basics of about 6 or 7 new dances while I was at that party and since then have been working to learn more about them. Beyond just having fun learning and dancing these differnet styles, I’ve found that every new dance I learn helps me improve in what I already know.
A lot of what you learn in one dance can translate nicely into another dance. From my experience with swing, I was able to quickly pick up the basics of Chacha, Salsa, Rumba, Hustle, and other stationary dances. I knew how to follow when I was led through a turn, I knew how to set my feet going keep up with the beat, I knew how to dance the basics of these other dances well enough to have fun. Then, as I practiced and learned more, I started noticing the things I was learning in other dances. I would be on the dance floor, and during a Salsa or Chacha I would be brought into a cradle or sweatheart position, and I would recognize the lead from swing. I would learn a new move in Salsa or Hustle that was a move I had difficulty recognizing in Swing, but because of the slight difference in lead due to the different dance, I was able to respond to the move in that dance, and it allowed me to respond better to the move when I went back to swing. Dancing Salsa has greatly improved my ability to following elaborate arm locks and twists and turns that are performed in swing.
Dancing the traveling dances such as Foxtrot, Waltz, and Tango has given me insight into the use of the body to signal a lead. In swing, I was used to responding to the tension in the arm from Lindy Hop, but learning Waltz has giving me greater knowledge of how to respond to non-stationary movement, using the body to signal a turn to a new direction, and more. It has made me more aware of the space around me on the floor, and more trusting of my lead… dancing around the floor backwards is definitely a slightly scary experience at first!
A lot of people get set in the dance they like and don’t go out and try anything else. Many swing dancers I know aren’t willing to try something new. They found swing, they dance swing, they know swing, they like swing. They are happy to dance it. And that’s great, but you never know what you are missing out on, or what you could learn from dancing another style. I have definitley become a better follow, a smoother dancer, and a more stylistic dancer from my experiences with multiple forms of dancing. I think that no dancer should be so stuck to their own style that they are unwilling to try something new.
I encourage all swing dancers to go out and try ballroom. You will learn to have more control of your body, and become more aware of the space around you. You will learn new moves that can be integrated into swing, and new twists on moves you do every day. You will learn more about the interaction of your body with your partner… weight shifts, forward and backward movement… it will help with your Balboa 
And ballroom dancers, I encourage you to try swing! It’ll teach you to have some fun! I’ve danced swing with some ballroom dancers who maintain the strict, upright posture and form of ballroom… dancing swing in a swing setting, versus a ballroom setting, will cause you to loosen up a bit. From my experience, swing dancers tend to have better tension in their arms, which is helpful in the stationary ballroom dances. Their arm and hand leads are usually more pronounced, versus ballroom dancers with better body leads. Swing will also give you new ideas of styling to add to your dances.
In conclusion… open up, learn some new dances, and try and incorporate everything you learn into as many other dances as you can. And to all you swing dancers out there, remember that swing developed out of ballroom! There are more similarities than you are willing to admit You might be surprised that you can like something other than swing.
Swing actually developed out of Charleston and Black Bottom. Both street dances. In fact, most modern ballroom dances have street dance roots. The only “pure” ballroom dance is waltz.
When I speak of Ballroom, I generally am refering to the dances that are commonly lumped into the Ballroom designation today… Waltz, Foxtrot, and some Latin Rhythmic Dances. Theoretically, I suppose you could say Foxtrot is a “street dance” as it was developed by a Vaudeville performer during his acts, but in modern dancing it is generally considered a Ballroom dance, and thus that is how I refer to it in my posting.
I suppose I should have been more specific in what I was talking about, but I tend to write my posts late at night and thus my mind wanders. Swing started from the Charleston; the addition of breakaway moves was the foundation of the Lindy Hop swing out, and many other swing forms were derived from Lindy Hop. I should have said that modern swing has developed from ballroom influences. Many swing dancers dance East Coast, which can also be refered to as Ballroom swing. It’s the first swing dance that most dancers learn, and I know people who dance “swing” who aren’t comfortable or very knowledgable of Lindy Hop. East Coast was the ballroom concession to swing, and it differs from the 8 count of Lindy Hop. East Coast has much more of a ballroom influence. Foxtrot, for example, follows the “Slow, slow, quick quick” that you can break East Coast into, we just refer to the “quick quick” as a rock step or weight shift.
Many people will also argue that dances such as Balboa developed from the Foxtrot in ballrooms where the wild movements of the Charleston and other swing dances weren’t allowed due to crowded spaces. I’ve also heard that some people believe it developed from Rumba, a dance generally lumped in with Ballroom when people refer to the Rhythmic Dances of Ballroom. It obviously has elements of Charleston and other Swing Dances or we wouldn’t consider it Swing, but still, you can’t deny the potential ballroom influence.
Shag is also a very good example of swing that developed out of ballroom. Most people assume Shag is a variation based on Foxtrot. While it has quite a bit of influence from the Charleston, it was developed by young generations of kids who didn’t want to learn Ballroom but were generally confined to a specific style of music that suited Foxtrot. They spiced it up and made it as much like Charleston (and thus as much fun) as possible. Shag has a 6 count that can easily be divided into “slow, slow, quick quick” which each slow having two “hops” and each quick getting one “hop”. Shag also, from what I know, predates dances such as Lindy Hop.
When you think about it, many dance steps can be broken down into “slow, slow, quick, quick”. So the fact that the 6 count swing basic fits fox trot timing is more coincidence than development. In that sense, modern ballroom forms of swing are adapted to be influenced by fox trot timing. As you said, Shag has the more direct development path from Fox Trot. In fact, early forms of Fox Trot even share the same “bounce” (aka “trot”) as Shag, a styling point that has since been removed from the modern forms of “smooth” Fox Trot.
I’ve never heard anyone refer to Balboa developing from Fox Trot seeing the dance does not have the “slow, slow, quick, quick” timing. Balboa more closely resembles the eight count basic of Charleston.
You have many good points and have really done your homework. For that I applaud you. However, I tend to disagree on a few core concepts. I’ve danced many disciplines over the years, including American and some International forms of ballroom. The ballroom community tends to claim credit for many things that they are not responsible for. They don’t give credit where credit is due and in doing that, they water down and cloud the cultural aspects of a dance. They try to relate everything back to “ballroom dances” and have very “ballroom centric” views of the dance word. Ballroom is good at adding structure to a dance, documenting it, and combining aspects of dances together. However, ballroom is not good at outright innovation. Most of the aspects of dancing you refer to as being from ballroom are in fact, not innovated by the ballroom community at all. They are borrowed aspects of other dances… be it street, jazz, latin, etc.
Few dance innovations are influenced by ballroom dances. It’s usually quite the opposite. However, to give credit where it is due, ballroom does aggregate these innovations together very well. Unfortunately, when they do this, the ballroom community has a tendency to claim these innovations as their own.
You certainly know your stuff. I just encourage you to take a different perspective for a bit. It opens up the “soul” of the various dances more.
True, “slow, slow, quick, quick” timing can be coincidence in some degrees, but for Shag it definitely holds true.
As far as Balboa, I don’t see how it came from Fox Trot, I’m just stating what i’ve read while researching the history of some of the dances. Some thing it came from Charleston, some from Foxtrot, and some from Rumba. I personally feel it as more of a Shag/Charleston relation.
I’m really not an advocate of the Ballroom centric view. I started as a Swing dancer; I have only been ballroom dancing for a few months. I believe that there are great aspects to both styles that can improve a persons dancing. I’ve noticed that my swing has improved from learning ballroom, and knowing swing has given me insight to ballroom moves, allowing me to advance quickly to a more “intermediate” stage of dance, though I still lack many of the fundamental basics to ballroom due to having spent such a short time in actual classes and lessons.
I don’t necessarily give ballroom any more credit than anything else, I just think that the influences that exist should be recognized, becuase i’ve seen swing dancers who ignore the existence of ballroom and it’s potential influences on swing. There is a lot of “cross communication” in all dance styles, and nowadays, you really can’t separate things out and say “this is strictly a ballroom move” or “this is strictly a swing move” or “this is strictly a jazz move”. The meshing of styles is what makes dance ever evolving and thus more enjoyable. If dances were static we’d get bored pretty quickly.
I’ve learned some great moves in Swing that originated in Ballroom and I don’t see as often in purely swing dances, but commonly in ballroom settings, and they add a lot to the dance. By the same token, i’ve seen some moves that are common to swing get nicely integrated into some of the rhythmic ballroom dances.
My goal is not to define a dance as the “originator” or a move or style. My goal is to introduce the idea that there are more similarities than a dancer of purely one style might think, and to hopefully encourage people to broaden their viewpoints and learn new things. It’s what will continue to keep dance in general enjoyable!
My only reason for taking a more hardcore “ballroom” approach in my previous comment was simply to stress the aspects where ballroom dances do come into play, as from your previous comment I didn’t know your background, and I’ve had swing dancers that i’ve spoken to have a “swing centric” opinion where they don’t like to acknowledge anything but the swing scene
Thanks for the comments and I hope you will continue to provide insight on anything I might post in the future